2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

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2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Mosbey on Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:44 am

Quoting DDB from the “Crisis” Thread.

DDB speaks:
Just wanted to say, I am all for the intentions of the founding fathers and all but we must not let that blind us to the fact that AMERICA IS A DIFFERENT BEAST IN THE YEAR 2008. Like the right to bear arms. Am all for it. I love guns (also very very responsible with guns.). I cherish my constitutional right to own them. BUT I KNOW DAMN WELL THAT WHEN THAT RIGHT WAS ESTABLISHED, IT WAS FOR A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PURPOSE THEN IT IS TODAY. Still, God bless them founding fathers.

As Discussions about the 2nd amendment, Religion, and Roe v. Wade can often take on a near cancerous life of their own, I thought a new thread was in order.

I have to disagree a bit. The second amendment is as clear and as relevant today as it was in 1791. It has nothing to do with personal self defense…that is a default, stated by the likes of the 9th amendment. The mere fact that the Supreme Court actually had to rule that self-defense is a central component of the 2nd would have our founding fathers spinning over in their graves. I really do not see how “shall not be infringed” is open for any interpretation.

On that note, I will bite DDB. Given the upcoming election and so many other more timely topics to discuss, this might be irrelevant, but I am curious...How do you feel it is different?
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Kiuku on Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:03 am

Mosbey,

I agree that the right to bear arms had everything to do with the need to protect against a police state. All other rights require the right to bear arms. Unfortunately the right to bear arms has become obsolete considering the military and the government and even sometimes the police have more advanced weapons than we are allowed to have. It completely violates the premise behind the second amendment.

Constitutional interpretation aside, some people also think that the isolationist policies of our fore fathers that made our country an economic super power are obsolete because of long range missiles and H bombs. However, because of our advanced military technology due to our entering conflict, I think that we can reasonably offset an attack on us with the threat of our military might. Therefore we can take on an isolationist policy. It may be the only recourse.
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Kiuku on Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:12 am

otherwise we might go under, like Iceland, and before you know it Requiem for a Dream will start playing
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Mosbey on Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:15 am

“Unfortunately the right to bear arms has become obsolete considering the military and the government and even sometimes the police have more advanced weapons than we are allowed to have.”

Too true. Actually, now that I think about it, a Constitutional case could be made that the overwhelming cost of modern arms is an “infringement” on the average citizen’s ability to KEEP Arms. Government "welfare" weapon handouts would be an easy fix. Perhaps I am a liberal at heart after all… :wink:
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby doodoobird on Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:44 am

OH, ITS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG MY NINJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (dont wanna offend anyone with the N word so I use ninja)
Kiuku kind of took the words right out of my mouth. I add a little something, though. NO NEED FOR A MILITIA THESE DAYS, AGREE???????? Unless your one of them rednecks locked away in your stronghold up in the mountains, armed to the freaking teeth, waiting for the race war, and no, it will not be televised. You see, our country and the problems it faces has evolved light years beyond what our founding fathers (ALLAH PRAISE THEM) could ever envision. But, on the flip side, I still enjoy knowing that if an invading army were to ever come marching down my neighborhood, Gurilla operations could ensue with little planning. In the instance, I would enjoy my 2nd amendment rights more then any other time, taking pop shoots here and there at the _______________ (russian, chinese, somalian, jihadies), whoever is dumb enough to invade a nation armed to the teeth.
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Kiuku on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:37 am

DDB, what if they invaded California?
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby doodoobird on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:58 am

Well, Cali may have some tough laws but lets hope they (invading army) rolls by Compton. Ratta tat tat goes my gat. Make way for the Ak that I sling.
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Mosbey on Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:51 am

Armed to the teeth redneck!? Who!? Where!? Umm… :oops: well…I guess I am guilty as charged. Sadly, like other great democracies in history, domestic tyranny is often a much greater threat than any foreign nation. Not to imply I am preparing for or advocating toting rifles against the US Government, but I think, even in this day and age, the mere threat of a citizen’s militia can serve to curtail ‘some’ Governmental abuses of power. I pray we will never need it, but I am glad we at least have the option open should all else fail…maybe that makes me a radical? :shock: First the welfare, now this!? Gosh am I becoming one of those dreaded Liberal radicals!?

As for the scenario of defending California…Do you guys think Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, and/or Dianne Feinstein would stand at the border and attempt to disarm any out of state partisans that crossed over into California to help fight for the freedom of our liberal brothers and sisters?
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Kiuku on Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:53 am

Mosbey,

I would definitely argue that it is constitutional for a citizen's militia to have any weapons of their choosing that are not illegal for the US government to have.
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Kiuku on Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:55 am

hahaha DDB..the closest I ever got to Compton was on the ..what the hell was it called. some train lol!! Yea I rode a train through Compton. I am proud of that. That's privilege for you.
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Betsy_Boo on Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:09 pm

I'm a firm believer, as you all know, in the Constitution but I gotta say guns are just plain scary to me. What scares me the most is people who have kids and don't keep the guns locked up. The second thing that scares me is when you have a gun in the house and two people get into a raging argument, how easy it is for one to just pick that gun up and shoot the other. I know that the majority of gun owners are probably very responsible people...it's that irresponsible, mentally challenged minority that worries me.
"We'll always have Paris."

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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Kiuku on Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:11 pm

As for the scenario of defending California…Do you guys think Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, and/or Dianne Feinstein would stand at the border and attempt to disarm any out of state partisans that crossed over into California to help fight for the freedom of our liberal brothers and sisters?


They've got the terminator.

You know I think we need to relax our borders when we become isolationist too. We need to wage..I was thinking about this last night. We need to wage economic warfare. We can't compete with slaves and other countries are using slaves. We used to have a slave system, blacks, and then also women. We no longer have a slave system, rightfully so. So we need to boycott products from countries that are produced with slaves. We can take the moral high ground here, but what it really comes down to is economic survival.
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Mosbey on Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:43 pm

As shown by my rantings about income tax and the what not…I do not think we can pick and choose what parts of the Constitution we want to adhere to without undermining the ENTIRE document. Logically, if the Second amendment can be tossed out, what prevents the “curtailing” of the First amendment?

As a child, did you all grow up in households with or without firearms?
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby Betsy_Boo on Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:35 pm

No guns in my house. I will admit that I went to a summer camp when I was 8 and we learned how to shoot a rifle. I won first place in my age group. However, when my kids were little I would find out after having let my kids play in a gun household I would not allow them to go over there anymore because the guns were not locked up. I also recently found out that the boyfriend of one of my daughters (who is living with him) has recently purchased a gun. Do you have any idea how much that scares me? Here's a question for you M...do you have children??
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Re: 2nd Amendment, what 2nd Amendment?

Postby grasking on Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:49 pm

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