Gaza / Israel

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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby The_Fourth_Craw on Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:51 pm

doodoobird wrote: Plus, part of the reason civilian deaths are so high is because the Israelis dont have ground soldiers to verify targets and better pinpoint exactly what IS a target.
Hamas may have sustained some damage during this offensive but they will regroup relatively soon. And it will be a matter of time before we are down this road again.
And the only thing that can bring about a sustained peace over there? In my opinion, Islam has to reform. The voices of extremism have to be stifled or silenced all together.


The Israeli army did know where some of the targets were..... they had the exact GPS coordinates of the UN buildings and shelled them with white phosporus. A total disregard for international law, again.

You are right about Hamas DDB, knocked back a bit, but they are already stockpiling weapons. But, if the Isreali objective was to stop them, its been a total failure. Probably have created more recruits.

And yes, Islam does need to get its house in order and quickly. There is a lot of denial in the Muslim world that needs to be tackled, about time they started to stop the extremists themselves. It will be interesting to see what Obama does....
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby doodoobird on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:44 pm

Of course they knew what they were bombing, as far as where it lies on a freaking map, but the lack of soldiers on the ground to verify if it really IS a target brings the kind of civilian death toll we see.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby Betsy_Boo on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:38 pm

I am appalled when any innocent person is murdered. I don't care what their religion is...murder is murder. And all the murderers will go to hell if there is any justice beyond this world.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby doodoobird on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:38 pm

Well, if there is a hell, and its the same one portrayed in the Christian faith then a lot of people, good and bad, will be there.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby Betsy_Boo on Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:19 am

doodoobird wrote:Well, if there is a hell, and its the same one portrayed in the Christian faith then a lot of people, good and bad, will be there.


True. To be perfectly honest I don't know if I believe in that Christian hell...or any hell for that matter. I have been doing my own research into the nature of good vs. evil and the more I read the more confused I get. Is there such an entity as Evil? Or perhaps it's a choice? Or a sickness? I don't think I'll ever find a definitive answer.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby doodoobird on Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:31 pm

I dont believe in heaven or hell. BUT if there is a hell I really dont think that God would send EVERYONE who does not accept Jesus as their personal savior there. Again, IF there is a hell, I think that early Christians (aka, the catholic church) skewed the words a bit to put fear into the hearts of the non believers to get them on their side. Really, what kind of God would condemn most of the world to hell, people who never had a chance, people born into their faiths. Burn for eternity just because they never had a chance to accept Jesus as their savior. IF that is the case, then I want nothing to do with THAT God. Not a nice guy. Got his panties in a bunch or something.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby The_Fourth_Craw on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:11 pm

I rejected organised religion a long time ago. I was brought up as Christian in the Church of Scotland, when I started to research it all, I came to the conclusion that all organised religion is simply a power trip by those who organise it. The basic messages are usually good ones, but humans being humans, we will never have a perfect world.

Now a days I just have an open mind and lean towards Paganism, respecting nature etc. Not an aetheist, but I do not think there is a Heaven or Hell as classically portrayed.

I do not beleive in Evil as a separate entity, to me, thats just an excuse used by some people to pass the buck.

I could be wrong though.... :wink:
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby grasking on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:27 pm

"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
He'd be gunned down cold by the C.I.A.
Oh, the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass
Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart
But God didn't build himself that throne
God doesn't live in Israel or Rome
God doesn’t belong to the yankee dollar
God doesn't plant the bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn't even go to church
And God won't send us down to Allah to burn
No, God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it's sown

The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds
Armageddon days are here again"

THE THE "Armageddon Days Are Here (Again)"
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby The_Fourth_Craw on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:39 pm

grasking wrote:"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
He'd be gunned down cold by the C.I.A.
Oh, the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass
Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart
But God didn't build himself that throne
God doesn't live in Israel or Rome
God doesn’t belong to the yankee dollar
God doesn't plant the bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn't even go to church
And God won't send us down to Allah to burn
No, God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it's sown

The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds
Armageddon days are here again"

THE THE "Armageddon Days Are Here (Again)"


Grasking, you are the man! I used to play that whole album to death many years ago, brilliant cover too. In fact, everyone stop what you are doing and go and buy MindBomb by The The! :D
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby grasking on Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:32 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean. I love that album.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby doodoobird on Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:53 pm

Who is that?

By the way, for those who dont know, Armageddon is a place. More battles have been fought there then in any other place on earth. And I wonder, when Napolean fought there, how did people familiar with revelations not think they were living the end of days???
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby Betsy_Boo on Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:08 pm

The_Fourth_Craw wrote:I rejected organised religion a long time ago. I was brought up as Christian in the Church of Scotland, when I started to research it all, I came to the conclusion that all organised religion is simply a power trip by those who organise it. The basic messages are usually good ones, but humans being humans, we will never have a perfect world.

Now a days I just have an open mind and lean towards Paganism, respecting nature etc. Not an aetheist, but I do not think there is a Heaven or Hell as classically portrayed.

I do not beleive in Evil as a separate entity, to me, thats just an excuse used by some people to pass the buck.

I could be wrong though.... :wink:


But you could be right, too. I'm curious if anyone here has ever come across someone who they perceived as "evil". Anyone bump up against a sociopath or narcissist out there?
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby grasking on Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:30 pm

doodoobird wrote:Who is that?

By the way, for those who dont know, Armageddon is a place. More battles have been fought there then in any other place on earth. And I wonder, when Napolean fought there, how did people familiar with revelations not think they were living the end of days???


The name of the band is The The. The album the song was on was released in 1989. I believe Johnny Marr of the Smiths played guitar on that album.



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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby The_Fourth_Craw on Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:18 am

The name of the band is The The. The album the song was on was released in 1989. I believe Johnny Marr of the Smiths played guitar on that album.


Thats correct, also, Sinead O'Connor does some backing vocals on at least one song (Beyond Love). All in all, its a cracking album and I would recommentd it to everyone.
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Re: Gaza / Israel

Postby The_Fourth_Craw on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:57 am

Damn!, They've changed the album cover, no more do we have the poor Dove on a Bayonet image!
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