First Debate

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Re: First Debate

Postby doodoobird on Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:53 pm

Not accusing. More like f'ing with you, is all.
Well, McCain is a scumbag for his ad as well. But I honestly will not believe that until I see it. I wouldnt normally ask you for a link Shane but because your not sitting the fence on this one, can you send me a link? I would really like to see that.
All ads are an attempting of swaying the viewer. Most are negative, too. The only thing that stands out concerning these ads is the different shades of negative vibes it leaves you with. Anger. Animosity. Confusion. Indignation. Guilt. Betrayal. Reminds me of Days of Our Lives our some soap opera bullshit.
By the way, if you had to pick, the DooDooBird was holding a gun to your head (not a threat, just a hypothetical), who won the debate. Lets just say TIED is an option too.
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Re: First Debate

Postby Shane on Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:33 am

doodoobird wrote:Not accusing. More like f'ing with you, is all.

I know. I just like to be clear about things like that.

Well, McCain is a scumbag for his ad as well. But I honestly will not believe that until I see it. I wouldnt normally ask you for a link Shane but because your not sitting the fence on this one, can you send me a link? I would really like to see that.

Absolutely. I can appreciate the need to be able to check it own for yourself.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html

By the way, if you had to pick, the DooDooBird was holding a gun to your head (not a threat, just a hypothetical), who won the debate. Lets just say TIED is an option too.


I'll be honest with you, and hopefully you'll be able to take it as such. I thought that Obama seemed to start off stronger than McCain, but that McCain seemed to finish stronger. I didn't watch any of the post-debate coverage at all because I didn't want to have my memory & interpretation of the event to get clouded or biased. However, I'm told that I wasn't the only one who noticed it odd that McCain didn't look at Obama at all, and Obama made eye contact with him, the public, everyone. I thought it telling that Obama was able to say McCain was correct in things, and McCain never did the same. I understand that it's not a book-club meeting they're engaged in, but there's these little things potentially add up to some extent for me. I thought it was very clear that McCain does not like Obama, too... and that (my interpretation here, of course) McCain's physical reactions to Obama's answers and talking were soooo noticeable, it looked like McCain was actually bothered by hearing Obama. Like, almost as if by some bizarre way, Obama's thoughts and speech were physically affronting McCain. It was.... weird.

I guess the bottom line for me was this: in the topical-regard of Foreign Policy, where McCain was thought to be strongest, I thought he looked less sure and confident than I imagined, and that Obama seemed to come off more knowledgeable than initially believed. Since neither really seemed to have a slam-dunk moment (though, both had certain moments where they could have gone for it), I'd have to say that it was really close.

But, if it was a tie, or even a marginal-win for McCain, then isn't it possible that it was still a victory (of sorts) for Obama? Much in the same way people are expecting Biden to blow Palin out of the water (which, by the way, I think is a colossal error to assume will happen, necessarily... and dangerous, too) -- if it doesn't happen, and Palin manages to make it kind of even, then isn't that also a victory for Palin, too? I mean, especially when everyone is assuming she's going to get crushed? That kind of thing.

So, though I've given you a long-winded reply with a couple of different outs, here's my honest, genuine take: neither of them won that outing definitively. There were small moments of victory, but neither took advantage of their opportunities fully.
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Re: First Debate

Postby doodoobird on Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:19 am

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That ad was funny. Just like the Obama ad (except for the creepy heavenly glow that surrounded the anointed one), I like how each ad states in big letters, OBAMA (MCCAIN) WINS DEBATE, then in smaller letters, says so and so (Obama's (McCain's) best friend from high school, or something). Now, both campaigns obviously had an ad ready to go for after the debate, and therefor both are guilty to some extent. The question is, who was the first to post their pretentious ad?????? That person, whoever that is, is SLIGHTLY more guilty in my eyes. Only because the other HAD to respond in a similar manner. Because the ads were sent out so fast suggest that they were made in advance, anticipating that either they would win the debate and they wanted to make it official in the eyes of the American people, or, because they suspected the other would pull a scumbag move. Agghghhhhghhhh, politics is a dirty game.
I agreed with just about everything you said above, Shane. We obviously were watching the same debate. Honestly, I too was a little dissapointed with McCains behavior at the debate. He did seem a little agitated. He displayed what Obama must have been feeling inside. Though a bit unpolitical, McCain does stay true to who he is, kinda of a wise guy prick. Thats why i love him.
McCain takes a slight lead because Obamas position on Pakistan is completely insane (On my other post I get in more detail) for those of us familiar with the dynamics of that ticking time bomb that is Pakistan. But that lead is lost when you factor in the fact that this debate should have been McCains strongest night, he failed to 'shine', if you will. Because of this, the final DooDoo verdict is................. Tied.


As a side note: I highly suggest anyone reading this read GHOST WAR. It is a history of the CIA concerning terrorism. Starts at the Iranian revolution and end on September 10, 2001 (little known fact: that day the leader of the Northern Alliance was assasinated by Osamas men.) Most of the book deals with the Russian Afghan war of the 80's.

Side Side note: The ISI (Pakistans C.I.A), Military, Government, are three relatively independent entities that run the show in Pakistan. The new Pakistani Government is Western friendly but much more loosely tied with the ISI and the Military, making them at odds, meaning we lost our REAL foothold in that country. You see, Musharref, love him or hate him, was a product of the Military who took over that nation in a coup. The Military is close with the ISI for obvious reasons and Musharref for a time was a effective leader because he had ties with all three entities. Eventually, he lost credibility. A series of unfortunate (for him) high profile incidents took place that led to his downfall. The new government in charge is not in the best position now. OUR interest are fucked, by the way. If the current situation continues, if the government can garner more support from the populace, in effect bring the ISI and the Military to its knees (or at least on ONE knee) we may be all right in the long run. If the government losses any more support from the people (that has been the current trend), expect a military coup or another ISI assination that will put their men back in charge. As far as how THAT situation will effect our interest, hard to tell. These last few years the Military and ISI (ISI in particular) have been turning radical, not good. Bottom line is this: May be best to leave Pakistan the fuck alone right now (HINT HINT!! Listen up Mr. Obama) because the more we get involved the worse the current pro western government looks and the more likely that ticking time bomb will run out of ticks.
Damn, i got school in 4 hours. SHIT!!!!!
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Re: First Debate

Postby grasking on Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:51 pm

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Re: First Debate

Postby Betsy_Boo on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:51 pm

Did anyone happen to notice during the debate that Obama had a flag pin on and McCain didn't? Makes you wonder about all the fuss was about Obama not wearing one in the past.
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Re: First Debate

Postby Betsy_Boo on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:56 pm

grasking wrote:Another interesting read.

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/200 ... -this.html


Thanks for posting that g. We just might have a chance to win this thing as long as racism doesn't rear its ugly head!

BTW...the VP debate is Oct. 2...this Thurs. Don't miss it! If nothing else, it's sure to be entertaining! :mrgreen:
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Re: First Debate

Postby Kiuku on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:19 pm

Yes everyone is waiting to see Sarah Palin screw up. Such attention is aweful. I didn't notice that McCain wasn't wearing a flag pin, but Obama is the one who said he wouldn't wear it. Atleast I'm sure McCain pledges allegiance to the flag every time and gives our flag due respect. It's hard to imagine a war veteran who gave his life and volunteered to be tortured for the sake of his country not wearing a pin on purpose...so it's easier to believe Obama probably wore his on purpose and McCain simply had a wardrobe malfunction.
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Re: First Debate

Postby Kiuku on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:50 pm

Of course, the flag pin principle isn't the only thing Obama has flipped on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHPCZFUCs9k

And to be fair, you have to allow flip flops. I mean you want your president to be flexible, adaptive, progressive,..but come on.

I recommend reading also the scrolling news.
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Re: First Debate

Postby doodoobird on Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:37 pm

Actually Betsy, the uproar was about Obamas answer to why he would not wear the flag pin. Curiosity as to why he was never spotted with one sparked a question that led to Obamas answer, thus began the brooha.
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Re: First Debate

Postby doodoobird on Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:42 pm

Polling in this election is slightly more unreliable then past ones. It goes back to your previous statement, Betsy. That is, how many white Dems might find themselves unwilling to place that vote for a black man. Personally, I think if your a white Dem you will vote for Obama, in most if not all cases. Its those INDEPENDENTS that should be a concern. HOW MANY INDEPENDENTS WHO AS ELECTION DAY GETS CLOSER, MAY BE LEANING TOWARD OBAMA BUT SAY TO THEMSELVES WHEN ITS TIME TO VOTE, MAYBE I SHOULD STICK WITH WHAT I KNOW, THE WHITE GUY????????????????? Right or wrong, it should be interesting. I just hope that if Obama loses that the race card players of our nation can keep their f'ing traps shut. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JESSE JACKSON. PLEASE.
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Re: First Debate

Postby Kiuku on Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:54 pm

I would hope that in our country there aren't still people who wouldn't vote for someone because of the way they look.
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Re: First Debate

Postby Kiuku on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:02 pm

The thing with having a member of an oppressed class in a rulership position, is you have someone who is much more likely to identify with the oppressed. In this case having sympathy even for unfriendly, rogue nations or regimes. You see this played out in Obama's willingness to discuss and try to understand the enemy.

I'm not convinced of Obama's positions. I liked the debate because it was the only time where he actually had to answer tough questions.

He has flipped a lot, but I believe he flipped in accordance with what he needs to win the election and what he believes those who are voting now want. He said what he had to say to win the democratic nomination and now he is going a little beyond that.

I'm not convinced of his positions, which is a good thing, since I've not liked a majority. I'm not convinced of his principles...but I am convinced of his intelligence. I'm convinced of his adaptive, flexibility, and his naivete and idealism.

If I could be convinced of his patriotism, I might even vote for him.
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Re: First Debate

Postby Betsy_Boo on Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:12 am

doodoobird wrote:Polling in this election is slightly more unreliable then past ones. It goes back to your previous statement, Betsy. That is, how many white Dems might find themselves unwilling to place that vote for a black man. Personally, I think if your a white Dem you will vote for Obama, in most if not all cases. Its those INDEPENDENTS that should be a concern. HOW MANY INDEPENDENTS WHO AS ELECTION DAY GETS CLOSER, MAY BE LEANING TOWARD OBAMA BUT SAY TO THEMSELVES WHEN ITS TIME TO VOTE, MAYBE I SHOULD STICK WITH WHAT I KNOW, THE WHITE GUY????????????????? Right or wrong, it should be interesting. I just hope that if Obama loses that the race card players of our nation can keep their f'ing traps shut. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JESSE JACKSON. PLEASE.


Some of the pundits are saying that people are deciding based on age rather than race...what I mean is older people are leaning towards McCain and younger ones toward Obama. I'm not sure this doesn't have to do with race actually. Younger people have grown up in an age where racism is a bad thing and I think are more tolerant. Older people tend to cling to the ideas and values they grew up with. I hate to say this, but I'm really scared you might be right DDB about those independents.

Regarding the day after...did you see Chris Rock's comedy special? He was talking about what's going to happen the day after if Obama loses. He said that if you depend on African Americans for anything don't expect anything on that day!
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Re: First Debate

Postby doodoobird on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:52 pm

I saw the chris rock special. I like chris rock but he should keep his political views to himself. If your a celebrity who's fame is not related with anything political, then you should shut your mouth. No one should care about what George Cloony has to say about Bush. Lindsy Lohan recently said something negative about Sarah Palin and my jaw dropped in disbelief. She said, 'I cant keep silent no more.' PLEASE DO!!!! Celebritys live in a world so far detached from reality (OUR reality. Regular people, that is), what makes them think that us little people are interested in their political beliefs. SELF CENTERED BASTARDS. Ask the rich and famous how much a gallon of milk cost at the grocery store. Ask them how much a good education cost these days. They dont know.
I was watching t.v last night when I realized something. Pop culture, mainstream media (exception of Fox news), are in the tank for Obama. We the voter will place our votes in the ballot. Technically, we the people decide who the next president will be. BUT...... what makes us decide the way we do? Why do we pick who we pick??? Personal ideology? Our vision of the future? Who we think is more likable? Who inspires us more? Well, all these things factor into our decision. All these things are also heavily influenced by our culture. A culture that is overwhemingly biased. IT IS. Flip by the channels, if you know what your looking for, you cannot miss it. Maybe this bias is just???? Maybe the backlash on the party that ruled for the last 8 years caused this. Maybe. But I know its not right. Its not right for pop culture to influence in this way. We the people place that ticket in the ballot, but we are not doing so with our free will. No sir were not.
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Re: First Debate

Postby grasking on Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:12 pm

What if there was an election and no one voted?
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