Crisis, What Crisis?

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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Florida on Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:43 am

I'm aware that it has been taken to the supreme court but if you are so emotional about this issue maybe YOU should do something about it. Flapping on a message board won't get anything done.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Mosbey on Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:51 am

Florida wrote:I'm aware that it has been taken to the supreme court but if you are so emotional about this issue maybe YOU should do something about it. Flapping on a message board won't get anything done.



True, but what then would I do with all of my hot air? :shock:
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Florida on Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:45 pm

Mosbey wrote:
Florida wrote:I'm aware that it has been taken to the supreme court but if you are so emotional about this issue maybe YOU should do something about it. Flapping on a message board won't get anything done.



True, but what then would I do with all of my hot air? :shock:


You could blow yourself around the living room much to the amusement of your 30 or more cats.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby TrueBlue on Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:54 pm

Florida wrote:
Mosbey wrote:
Florida wrote:I'm aware that it has been taken to the supreme court but if you are so emotional about this issue maybe YOU should do something about it. Flapping on a message board won't get anything done.



True, but what then would I do with all of my hot air? :shock:


You could blow yourself around the living room much to the amusement of your 30 or more cats.


I've been reading this thread with interest and "amusement" for a while now. I rarely post, and this last exchange is case in point why I don't more often. Just because someone is not in perfect political lockstep with you, Florida, you feel the need to belittle them with petty put downs. How childish. If you don't agree, that's fine. Be an adult and explain why you don't agree. Or, better yet, if you don't want to be bothered, leave the thread to those who might wish to debate.

I guess I see this last exchange as a part of a greater trend. Socially, I tend to be more liberal than conservative, but the hate and childish, petty put-downs of the left, the Dems, etc. are really putting me off... In my opinion, it is far worse than that of the right. I'm adrift right now politically because being a "liberal" no longer equates with tolerance, and that makes me sad.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Betsy_Boo on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:11 pm

You know what caused that TB? The nasty politics of the right. Look what they did to Kerry and McClellan in 2004. Look what they did to Dukakis. We've tried to take the high road for sooooooooooooooo long and look what happened: George Bush who has spent the last 8 years destroying the economy and our good reputation in the world. I hate the fact that we Democrats have to respond in kind. I hate that we have to get down in the gutter with the right wing. But apparently that is all the majority of this country can understand. Everybody saw how the right wing took a decorated Vietnam veteran and turned him into a coward and anti-American. Bush didn't even serve this country during Vietnam and yet he won the election...he spent those years snorting coke and playing frat pranks. Can you see how for us enough is enough? Have you seen some of the ugly things the right wingers here have said? What Florida said was not nearly as ugly...in fact it was funny and pretty mild in comparison.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby TrueBlue on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:30 pm

Politics is ugly; that is certainly true. I am not denying that each side has pulled some pretty horrific stunts. Unfortunately, that is the terrible nature of party politics. That said, in my opinion, I feel the current tenor of the Democratic party is far more vicious. Granted, during political discussions, my conservative friends usually treat me with condescension, but I would rather that than the biting personal put-downs that I get from my liberal friends. Again, I am merely speaking from my experience. I am socially a liberal and will always consider myself one, but I came to the epiphany during the primaries that I refuse to align myself with people who are so quick to viciously attack on a personal level.

And, by the way, I do not feel descending into the gutter is justified because, "They started it." Again, that is a childish way of looking at the world, and I want, no I demand, better from my party. I'm sorry to say I am sitting out this election cycle...
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Betsy_Boo on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:31 pm

You're right...absolutely. It is childish. But in my opinion this is the most important election in my lifetime and it's the only way to stand up to bullies.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Betsy_Boo on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:32 pm

And btw, the Democratic Party doesn't even come close to "vicious" compared to the Republican Party.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Kiuku on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:47 pm

What the democratic party did to Senator Clinton was vicious. And glorious Obama did nothing to stop it. He will win at all costs. He's done nothing but lie to you. He said what he said to win the primary, and, as you can tell, holds none of the former positions. He's a liar. Plain and simple. It's intelligent to be a liar. But no doubt about it, you are electing a liar.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Kiuku on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:50 pm

Obama's healthcare plan was debunked on CNN last night. It's nice and all to tell us we have a right to healthcare (we do!!) but it means nothing without a viable plan.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Florida on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:56 pm

Florida wrote:I'm aware that it has been taken to the supreme court but if you are so emotional about this issue maybe YOU should do something about it. Flapping on a message board won't get anything done.



True, but what then would I do with all of my hot air? :shock:[/quote]

You could blow yourself around the living room much to the amusement of your 30 or more cats.[/quote]



HEY HEY HEY!!!!

I haven't put anyone's political beliefs down and haven't even voiced mine. I feel that if you are excited and emotional about something you should act on it. Is that putting someone down?
The cat comment was just a joke...get over yourself. I don't even know if mosbey owns A cat much less thirty. I just thought it would make Mosbey laugh...imagine that...someone actually getting a joke!
I am actually laughing because you assume to know my political position because you have misinterpreted a friendly ribbing.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby grasking on Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:04 pm

Kiuku wrote:Obama's healthcare plan was debunked on CNN last night. It's nice and all to tell us we have a right to healthcare (we do!!) but it means nothing without a viable plan.


It's amazing. We can bail out Wall Street, but when it comes to healthcare all we get is hot air.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Kiuku on Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:03 pm

Right, Grasking. It's unfortunate because, we could have avoided this credit induced crisis. We could have avoided it with a health care policy for all Americans. And we could have afforded it in the form of community clinics. If you have money and you want better service nothing is stopping you from hiring a doctor but there should be community hospitals funded by the government. And medical services are so expensive only because of big insurance companies. They can get away with it.

Without a health care burden on small companies, people would be making living wages. But because of the greed of insurance companies, it is becoming too difficult for small businesses to insure their people AND pay them living wages, with promotions.

The compounding issue is credit frenzies. It got way out of hand, and I guess I will say that there should have been more government regulation on credit practices. With companies encouraging credit lifestyles, people stopped noticing that they weren't making a living wage anymore, and it became less obvious when they weren't getting promoted like their parents and their grandparents.

Housing costs continued to rise, like real estate does, and people didn't notice that their wages weren't proportionate to rising house costs.

So we have this HUGE healthcare crisis and people are buying something that isn't even covering their health expenses and jobs aren't able to pay their workers correctly and a credit lifestyle with predator lenders willing to convince people they can afford outrageous mortgages.

Then everyone defaults, obviously, and the financial institutions fail, people foreclose, and those assets turn bad...which is where we are out right now.
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Kiuku on Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:24 pm

The policies that a successful administration would take up is 1. Free government hospitals in all major cities. They don't have to be anything special, but they must be free to American citizens. 2. promote civil unions, and tax relief for couples regardless of gender, because family is the structure at the base that promotes success, and it doesn't have to be man and woman, but it does have to work. 3. tax relief for big businesses 4. drop all useless government programs and I have some suggestions, 5. removal of troops from Iraq as quickly as feasible within the parameters of success because Iraq isn't creating jobs but it is draining our resources 6. take on an isolationist but not protectionist policy (don't worry countries won't blame us or hate us for this. in fact, they'd love it) 7. Tax heavily goods not American made and promote relief for American manufacturers in the form of incentives, especially for farmers and subsidize their crops
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Re: Crisis, What Crisis?

Postby Mosbey on Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:52 am

Betsy,
Rather than post facts and studies refuting you yet again…Let us just assume for the moment that you are indeed correct in your above postings...

The nasty politics of those of us you have labeled as the “vicious” and evil “right-wingers” are truly to blame, and you have for “sooooooooooooooo long” taken the high road to no avail. You admit these actions are “childish. But in (your) opinion this is the most important election (of your) lifetime and it's the only way to stand up to (vicious right-wing) bullies.”

I have long argued that the Democrats are no longer a party of tolerance, thanks for proving my case. :D


“The man who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself”.
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